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smalltrolven

The Wanting Comes In Waves

All Sam/Dean, All The Time


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smalltrolven

Episode Reaction - 8.12 - As Time Goes By

Ok, so this episode really worked for me, on a whole lot of levels.  It had that season 2 and 3 feeling back again, except with our season 8 put-through-the-ringer, "mature" boys.

aving the blast from the past THEN was a trip wasn't it? Seeing all of it laid out in a row is kind of extraordinary, everything they've gone through, the whole beautifully twisted story. I'll say that they've convinced me with this episode,  I'm willing to set aside the obvious continuity issues and just enjoy the Show from here on out, as long as there are episodes like this and 8.11 still being made..
spn812handscuffsI know it's super shallow of me, but I'd really like to know why Dean was able to snag the cuffs out of his bag oh so very easily, like they were in their own pocket, or right on top where he left them last night or?...  sorry.  Just saying, I think Grandpa W was pretty lucky to come out of the closet at the moment he did and not a half hour earlier. Their hands and the cuffs and I can't think clearly at this point, the picture that launched a 1,000 fics, 

"He's dead. Why, what's it to you?"
"Everything, I'm his father."  Oh god, I love this kind of dialogue. verything, that's exactly what a father *should* say about their child.  And in the end, finally, that's just what John WInchester said too when he sold his soul and the Colt for Dean's life.

I enjoyed the character continuity with Dean being standoffish with Grandpa W, just like he was with surprise half-brother Adam.  I could see him reluctantly bringing up all the old daddy issues, with the new added layer of having abandoned his own "kid", Ben fairly recently, as well as his own recent time-travel jaunt.  
Calling Dean his Alpha male monkey friend, and stating that hunters are apes,  Grandpa W was a little bit of a snooty jerk to them until he knew they were his grandsons.  So I was glad that at the end he sai "I didn't know my son as a man. but having met you two, I know I would have been proud of him." . awwww.

Both Dean and Sam are definitely older than Grandpa when they meet, I'd say he was around 25, 30 max.He was so fresh faced and optimistic about the future compared to their world-(and heaven and hell)-weary resigned and determined attitude.  I don't know why character ages on this show always intrigue me, but they do..

It was a little unclear whose idea it was, but the carving the devil's trap on the bullet was pretty darned cool.  Who needs the Colt when you've got those babies?
But the whole thing that the grandfather saw so clearly that Dean would do absolutely anything to save his brother (even endanger the whole world by letting Abaddon get control of the box and the knowledge) and was on board with helping him was very moving to me.  This man was no Grandpa Campbell, that's for damn sure.
I thought it was cool though when Dean was explaining to him why they had to go do the trade to save Sam that he brought up "We stopped the apocalypse".  That's huge for him, taking credit like that, out loud to someone he's trying to convince and impress.  So maybe his self esteem isn't quite rock bottom huh? I wonder what Grandpa W meant about being able to stop the Apocalypse from even happening though, hmmmm.

spn812gpa2diesOnce again they got to see one of their family die right in front of them.  How beautiful though that they were both holding onto Grandpa W. when he passed. It was a really quiet, intimate, tear-jerking scene.  The visible regret that they felt at not getting to know him, or get to ask him about their dad as a little boy, or find out more about the whole Men of Letters thing.  It's almost too much on top of all the other loss they've experienced. Back in the cemetery again, burying yet another family member. They've gotten too good at it.

So now we're left with what must absolutely be called The Winchester Legacies, I love this reboot name stolen from  risti
When Grandpa Winchester says "You're also Winchesters. As long as we're alive.  There's always hope."
Sam looks at Dean like this: spn812legacysam
and Dean looks at Sam like this: spn812legacydean

You know that they're both thinking , we're the last of the Winchesters (and the Campbells for that matter), so when we die, there's no hope?"
Unless there happen to be other Winchester or Campbell cousins we don't know about of course.  So how are they supposed to reproduce to carry on the legacy?  Yeah maybe this leads to stories that could be a little bit soap-opera-ish, but that's okay I kinda like this new layer to their history and future.

So this gets me thinking, what possible kids are out there already that we might not have considered?

We have Ben of course, who is possibly Dean's son.  Back in season 6 the demon possessing Lisa she says he's not "Who knows who your real dad is kid, your mom's a slut!", but as they so often tell us, demons do lie.  Or maybe Lisa was pregnant by Dean when she was mind-wiped (okay that's kinda gross sorry).  
What about all those years of Dean tom-catting around, it might just be that he's left another child out there somewhere. Condoms do fail on occasion ;
Hey, why not a kid from his last tumble with Cassie? Wouldn't that be a trip?
There is always the possibility that John had another kid too, as in Adam might not have been a one-time mistake.  I actually would kind of like this, especially if there was a half-sister that they discover.

And most obviously within this season, Amelia is maybe possibly (oh god I hope not), pregnant with Sam's (or Don's) baby.,,

The recent spoilers and the preview for next week's episode have me the most excited about Show I've been since the beginning of the season.  Guess this mid-season reboot really worked on me.,What about you?


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Bite your tongue about Amelia! :D

But what continuity? Henry vanishing means Mrs. Henry Winchester probably remarried. That John had a male figure around that others called his "old man" (4x03) is not at all surprising but it still wasn't his "Dad"/Henry, whom he clearly felt he lost forever. I'm having a hard time seeing that as a continuity issue. Is there other dialogue where he says he does/doesn't have a father growing up?

Biting tongue very hard about Amelia, I almost didn't write that out, but I confess I have a small pit of dread in my stomach :-(

Continuity, ahem. Well it seemed to me like Dean knew that his father had been "abandoned" and that was where a lot of his gotta stick with dad thing came from and his resistance to being happy about meeting Grandpa W. I don't know if that is necessarily spelled out in dialogue or not though. But if there was a step-dad that raised John, (the dad referenced in "In The Beginning" , "Winchester, say hi to your dad for me John.", I come from a family of mechanics), why would John have still had the last name Winchester? If a woman got remarried back in the 50's she sure as hell was going to be change her name as well as her kids from the previous marriage to the new father's last name. The rules of society were really a lot different back then, and this was in a pretty traditional part of the country (Illinois and Kansas). But I'm willing to fan-handwave all that, honest!

But it's really interesting to think that John truly had no understanding of what his disappeared father was into, from "Song Remains the Same," he's talking about Mary's parents and Sam and Dean's parents, but his Dad was going to do almost the same thing to him if he'd stuck around: "I don't care. You know, what kind of irresponsible bastard lets a child anywhere near—Y-you know, you could've been killed!"

The year shouldn't be 2013, but 2015. But that's probably an inside joke by now on the production team when they throw in calendars and stuff just to bug people who obsess about details too much (like me!). And no, I wouldn't think Dean would be driving around with a 2013 registration tag on the Impala if it is actually 2015, that's just asking to get pulled over by the police.

There's other stuff too, (angel feathers all of a sudden?) but it's entirely too obsessive and I swear I'm letting. it. go. because I want to enjoy the show.

Yeah, I'm willing to go with it! It's definitely great to see the brothers interacting in a brotherly way, as well as have things finally come together in a way that lets them move forward. If we had to go through some of that crap to get here, well, that's fine and those just won't necessarily be eps I re-watch on the DVDs, yeah?


LOVED your take on the cuffs ;-)

The return to the brotherly interaction, and having them be together so easily is really satisfying and reassuring and I guess comforting to watch after the previous episodes this season. Like a big ol' pshew! for me.
I so agree about the not rewatching several of the first 10 eps when the dvd's come out, what would be the point?
The cuffs are just too yummy not to think about, and we see them again in the 8.14 preview, Dean is holding them, *again*. Guess it's a thing for me to notice now.

I'm VERY EXCITED now for the rest of the season. Sam and Dean and OH SHOW! <333

I've seen that Amelia theory around and have to say it's logical despite how horrible it'll be in fandom if that happens. I sort of cringe at the thought. I don't mind, per se, (not that I'm advocating for it by any means) but I can see it. I don't really want some kid from the past, personally, because it seems convenient. If I didn't know we were getting a season 9, it'd be a perfect setup for a happy ending for Sam and Dean to retire, settle and have families --- although that probably wouldn't go over well either. :(
Oh so many possibilities!! Sorry I'm rambling.

Anyway, I hope this key and legacy thing goes somewhere because it's kinda nifty. I wonder how Naomi and Cas and Crowley and Kevin and the whole race for the tablets fits into things or are the plot lines different?

I'm excited too for the rest of the season, and I'm excited that I'm finally excited (if that makes sense!).
I hate how logical the Amelia being pregnant theory is, and it is most definitely cringe-y. I thought a kid from the past might be a less painfully obvious "legacy" for them to throw out to us. But who knows. I can't see Sam and Dean settling down and having families as the end game of the show, as much as I like to imagine a happy ending for them, I also hope they don't go there in Show.

Now that we know the key led them to the BatCave, I'm still wondering about the legacy thing, will that just be dropped as a thing now as they move back into the tablets storyline? I have a feeling they'll find something that helps with the tablets in the MoL bunker. And hopefully it is angel proof as well as demon proof so that they're safe from Naomi and Naomi-compromised-Cas. Will Kevin ever get to see the bunker? Or will they keep it to themselves for themselves?

mmmm, that Sam and Dean cuffed together cap. Nice :)

I know,don't they look good cuffed together like that? I couldn't resist that picture.

Personally, I've been in love with this whole season, so welcome aboard ;) I'm sure we'll be seeing quite a few future plots coming out of this and I think they did a good job weaving in the new information in a conceivable way considering how tightly woven the boys' past already was.

It's funny because I keep hearing folks say that clearly John's mother had to remarry because it was the 50's (though, technically it was almost the 60's) and women just didn't work then, but my parents are both basically the exact same age as John, grew up in Michigan and both their mothers worked. My mother's parents got divorced when she was a bit older, but still a kid, and her mother never remarried. Certainly there was a stigma against it, but it's still possible, especially considering that we know nothing about John's mother. I think it's also not hard to believe that a Winchester would lie about his past to get with a girl ;)

In short, it makes enough sense to me and I like the added info into John's past - I think his perception of abandonment plays well into what we saw of the character, Dean's clinging to him and why John held onto the boys even when his lifestyle seemed in every way contrary to it. And I really like what you said about Dean and Ben - I didn't even think about that while I was watching the episode, but I could definitely see that playing into Dean's initial animosity towards Henry.

Personally, I've been in love with this whole season, so welcome aboard

+1 :-D

I've been struggling to love it this whole season, so this episode was a real relief to me, but I'm glad you've been loving it, thanks for the welcome aboard. There are definitely a lot of plot points that they have set up and I liked how they're coming out of the newly revealed Winchester past.

I think that John's mother must have remarried, otherwise who would the guy in the diner in "In the Beginning" have been referring to,when he says to young John, "say hi to your dad for me." In a small town, people know other people's families, and the guy would have known if John was being raised by just his mom. I just think it's funny that Sam and Dean's father has the last name Winchester,if his mother remarried. But we could fan handwave and say she remarried after he was in his teens and he didn't want to be adopted by this stepfather (that the town assumes is his father) and didn't take on the stepfather's name. Which I could totally see because of the abandonment and the Winchester stubbornness we know so well.

I like the addition of the abandonment story into John's backstory, it explains a whole lot of his motivation, and it made me think that he'd talked about it or expressed it somehow to Dean, because Dean sure learned that lesson very deeply.

Both Dean and Sam are definitely older than Grandpa when they meet

I loved the age thing and thought he looked younger also. The actor is a year younger than Jensen Ackles.

Very nice caps!

Wow, the actor is only a year younger than Jensen? I would not have guessed that. But then he does have to play Dean quite "old", and looks younger when he's being himself.
Thanks, glad you liked the caps.

AHHH cuffed Winchester!hands! I can't even.

I know, I almost had to pause the episode so I could catch my breath. Glad I watched this episode without my family, the noise I made would have been mightily embarrassing.

I LOVED this episode.

And I happy to find out that I am not the only one that waves her hand and says 'whatever' when there is a continuity issue.LOL

Dean was kind of smooth with those handcuffs. Lots and lots of practice, right Sammy.

Grandpa Henry would SOOOOOOO kick Grandpa Samuel's butt, without even breaking a sweat.

The age thing was kind of obvious. But shouldn't Henry have realized that his son would have been older than the two young men in front of him?

Speaking of continuity, why are we (meaning the show) in 2013, shouldn't we be in 2015? Waving my hand and saying 'whatever'.

Sorry, guys, but this is maybe the fifth or so episode this season, that I actually liked, and the only one that I would watch again.

Amelia preggie? Yech. The thought of that ugly girl having Sam's baby, turns my stomach.If we never have to see her ugly ass face again, I will be very very happy.

You know after they said goodbye to Grandpa Henry, they went back to the motei for some comfort sex. No handcuffs.

Oooh, a Grandpa Campbell vs. Winchester fight, now that's an interesting idea, hmm, they'd be pretty evenly matched, but Grandpa W would probably win. I really liked that character, wished he could have stuck around for more than an episode.

I agree, they definitely had the comfort sex (without handcuffs, good point!) after burying Grandpa, the life-affirming, thanks-for-choosing-me-again kind of sex we all know they survive on,

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